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Tires, Wheels, Brakes, Steering and Suspensions Discussion of preventative/corrective maintenance and other technical issues regarding your coach's Tires, Wheels, Brakes, Steering and Suspensions and related components.

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  #21  
Old 01-26-2020
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1984Lodge 1984Lodge is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esmi View Post
This seems like as good a thread as any to post proof that there is, in fact, such a thing as a dumb question. :-) Here goes:


Some LXs or LXis have the wheel on the tag axle "dish side out", whereas others have the "flat" side out. Why is that?


And, to further demonstrate my inability to grasp the obvious, I offer this:


All Wanderlodge tag axles are behind the drive axle. Some manufacturers put the tag in front of the drive axle (frequently called a "bogie axle" in the US). The chief benefit I can come up with for the tag in front (bogie) is that it simplifies the driveline because you do not have to transmit engine power over the tag axle and into the drive axle. The chief benefit I can come up with for the rear-mounted tag axle is that the bus is capable of making a turn. What are the real pros and cons? Eagle buses seem to be the most common bogie installation, and Eagles are pretty doggone neat.
As far as Wanderlodge goes, the steer tags are the ones that are like the front steer wheels with the flat side out. Other manufacturers have fixed wheels with the flat out. I think Wanderlodge did the tags to look like the drive for aeshtetics. As far as engineering goes, I think it’s better mounted like the steer. This places the load directly on the spindle, the other way around the wheel is pushed way out from the spindle creating a moment between the hub and spindle.
Eagles mounted the tag in front of the drive to free up luggage bay space. They moved other mechanicals in between the tags and this freed up space for more luggage capacity. It was not very popular because it increased the turning radius of the bus. The turning radius is most likely why most manufacturers place the tag behind the drive axle.
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1984 Bluebird PT40
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& 1986 MCI 102A3
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  #22  
Old 01-27-2020
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skywalker6582 skywalker6582 is offline
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Originally Posted by 1984Lodge View Post
As far as engineering goes, I think it’s better mounted like the steer. This places the load directly on the spindle, the other way around the wheel is pushed way out from the spindle creating a moment between the hub and spindle.
Actually, no matter which direction the wheel is mounted, the force is applied to the spindle at the wheel mounting point, not inline with the tire. The same amount of force (or "moment") is applied either way. one in a rotating toward the center of the bus as you look from the front or rear, and the other in a rotating away from the bus as you look from the front or rear. The tire portion of the wheel is the same distance from the mounting point either way, and therefore exerts the same amount of force on the spindle. Just in opposite directions.
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  #23  
Old 01-27-2020
mahansm mahansm is offline
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As far as the question of some tag axle wheels mounted with the dished face in or out, it depends on the type of axle. On the LXi there were three different tag axle designs.


The unloading tag and the lifting tag had the wheels mounted with the dish side out. The steering tag wheel was mounted with the dished side in (like the steer axle).
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  #24  
Old 01-27-2020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skywalker6582 View Post
Actually, no matter which direction the wheel is mounted, the force is applied to the spindle at the wheel mounting point, not inline with the tire. The same amount of force (or "moment") is applied either way. one in a rotating toward the center of the bus as you look from the front or rear, and the other in a rotating away from the bus as you look from the front or rear. The tire portion of the wheel is the same distance from the mounting point either way, and therefore exerts the same amount of force on the spindle. Just in opposite directions.
Flipping the wheel changes the offset of the wheel and changes the position of the contact patch in relation to the hub. If you have the wheel installed like the steer, the tire contact patch centerline and the hub centerline are almost matched. If you flip the wheel the tire contact patch centerline is now outside of the hub centerline.

Here is a clip from an article in from a Good Sam blog explaining it as well:

“ In the case of chassis’s, like that of the Freightliner, it may be done as a cost savings. The reverse rim, similar to the front wheel, can load the wheel bearing at, or near, the dead center of the wheel. That is, the bearing carrying that wheel would be directly in-line with the center of the tire tread. However, when the single wheel of a tag axle is mounted with the deep dish facing out, similar to the duals on the drive, except with no inner wheel, the bearing is well inboard. This, due to the lever affect, increases the bearing load substantially, requiring a larger and stronger bearing and possibly a more robust frame mount.”

Here is the link to the full article:

https://blog.goodsam.com/not-all-tag...uilt-the-same/
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Jeff LoGiudice
1984LodgeJeff@gmail.com
Temple Terrace, Florida
1984 Bluebird PT40
#F063411 6V92TA & MT654CR
& 1986 MCI 102A3
6V92TA & HT740 (Sold)
YouTube-Gino's Garage https://www.youtube.com/user/xjrjeff
http://www.bbirdmaps.com/index.cfm #460
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  #25  
Old 01-27-2020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esmi View Post
This seems like as good a thread as any to post proof that there is, in fact, such a thing as a dumb question. :-) Here goes:
Are you bored? This thread is 6 years old and you don't even have a bus any more?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skywalker6582 View Post
Actually, no matter which direction the wheel is mounted, the force is applied to the spindle at the wheel mounting point, not inline with the tire.
Nope

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1984Lodge View Post
Flipping the wheel changes the offset of the wheel and changes the position of the contact patch in relation to the hub. If you have the wheel installed like the steer, the tire contact patch centerline and the hub centerline are almost matched. If you flip the wheel the tire contact patch centerline is now outside of the hub centerline.
Yup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Some Idiot
“ In the case of chassis’s
Grrrrr
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  #26  
Old 01-27-2020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badandy View Post
Are you bored? This thread is 6 years old and you don't even have a bus any more?


Ha! Curious more than bored. I posted in this thread because it's one of the few that came up in my search of the site about the question. I like your PT35.
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  #27  
Old 01-27-2020
al perna al perna is online now
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Yeah you also brought up a long forgotten post mistake of mine , seems you can run but never hide from the internet
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  #28  
Old 01-27-2020
mahansm mahansm is offline
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Actually, both statements are correct. The torque applied to the mounting surface is the same for both wheel orientations (less the difference due to the thickness of the mounting surface of the wheel). The net torque on the hub is in fact much less with the contact patch under the hub.


Nobody has yet considered the torque applied to the hub due to the difference between the upward vertical force applied from the wheel to the flange and the downward vertical force from the axle through the bearings.



This torque will add to the torque applied from the dish out wheel and subtract from the torque due to the dish in wheel.


Everyone was right...
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