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Generators In this forum we will try to answer any of your questions about the different model generators that can be found on Blue Bird coach's.

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  #1  
Old 10-03-2015
clyndes's Avatar
clyndes clyndes is offline
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Default Perkins/Kohler No AC - but fan turning???

More generator problems!

I have a by-pass switch that allows me to run the Perkins when the Generator isn't generating. Gardner helped me while at Birds at the Beach to work around a problem with the controller/regulator that is described in a separate thread. It has worked for a while, but now...

http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.co...p?t-16838.html

Now it will only run when the by-pass switch is on (forces the fuel solenoid on). The 220 Volt AC fan is running (maybe slower than usual?). When I switch the manual switch from 50Amp to Gen - nothing. The 2 voltage/polarity gauges don't budge.

I've reset the AC circuit breakers in the generator compartment, and both main circuit breakers in the main circuit breaker box in the bedroom closet.

I've always used the fan turning to indicate that it was generating AC, this time it lies.

Any ideas?

Thanks in Advance.
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  #2  
Old 10-03-2015
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I don't think it's lying if I remember correctly the fan is an AC motor (unless it's been changed).
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  #3  
Old 10-03-2015
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Craig,
The control box is near impossible to figure out as the jury-rigged switches and procedures implemented by the PO change everything. Normally once the field is flashed (the B terminal on the reg) the generator needs nothing else to continue producing AC voltage. It does need a working regulator, however, and that might be the problem, but that is a guess.

The fan on mine was a 220 volt unit, now I have a 12 volt one. I don't remember but yours still has the 220 volt AC motor, right?

There are three terminals in the control box for the AC voltage connections. One neutral the two hot leads. Measure the voltage between the neutral and each hot lead, if they are both showing 110-120 then I believe the generator and regulator are working. I know you have to engage the field flash to get voltage (and it drops when you release it now)and you can't hold it on for long, so you need to get creative watching the meter and flashing the field. On my control box the three pole relay is a 110 volt connected between the neutral and one of the hot leads. If this relay is not picking or the contacts are not good it would cause the engine to shut down. But if the engine is running and the field is flashed and the solenoid is engaged the generator should produce voltage till the engine is shut down.

As you probably have read, I gave up on my Kohler and installed a Newage head from Central Georgia Generator. About $1200 with shipping.
It is brushless and does not need the field to be flashed. It does require some mount fabrication and removal of the first muffler(the one next to the Kohler). Mine is actually quieter without it.

My latest new Kohler regulator had 5 wires. One for flashing, two for the brushes (they are + and - and need to be connected to the correct brush.) Two remaining ones go to the two hot leads (one to each lead but not polarized)
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  #4  
Old 10-03-2015
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Thanks folks for your suggestions.

What is really puzzling me is that the 220 Volt AC fan is spinning, but the generator would shut down as if it wasn't able to generate AC and no AC is making it to the panel in the RV.

I have taken apart the control box and see the 3 AC connections in the bottom. Tomorrow, when it is light, I will test those. I have also dug out the replacement for the big ice cube relay that I purchased a while ago and never installed because the spade connectors on it are too big. See the attached picture for my solution. Tomorrow it goes in. I know it does most of the switching in response to there being AC, so I hope it might solve the problem.

Who knows, I might even end up with the original controller working instead of the generic one.

These generators are a pain!
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  #5  
Old 10-04-2015
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Spent the weekend replacing all of the relays in the control box.

Results - It is generating AC for both the fan motor and the AC service in the bus. It is no longer running when I do not have the bypass switch on which forces the fuel shutoff solenoid to on. Before this last issue once it was generating AC I could turn the bypass switch off. I think something changed so it is no longer aware that AC is being generated and it can leave the Perkins running.

I have the schematic and need to figure out the circuit that tells it when the AC is on. Does anyone know? The big ice cube relay? Is it switched on by DC or AC?

I took out the $$$ replacement voltage regulator that I had purchased. I was hoping that replacing all the relays would let it work in place of the generic. It didn't work. What I observed is that when the B terminal gets voltage (time to flash the winding) the + wire to the winding gets +12 Volts. I was watching the - wire to the winding for continuity to ground, and instead saw +12 volts!!! Is that what happens when they burn out?

Gardner - I am sad that you switched and no longer have one of these miserable beasts - I'm jealous too!
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  #6  
Old 10-04-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clyndes View Post
Spent the weekend replacing all of the relays in the control box.


I have the schematic and need to figure out the circuit that tells it when the AC is on. Does anyone know? The big ice cube relay? Is it switched on by DC or AC?
The CR relay(ice cube)is an AC relay. It is energized by 110V AC from the generator when it is producing the proper voltage. When energized, the CR turns on the "generator is running" light on the start/stop switch and switches the fuel solenoid to the holding coil.
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  #7  
Old 10-05-2015
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Craig,
The ice cube picks when there is sufficient AC voltage. One set of points provides 12 volts to the "B" terminal (flash) before the relay picks, and then supplies 12 volts to the 'run' light after it picks. So if the run light lights, the relay is picked. (the last pin, 53, on the terminal block, Blue wire.)

One set of ice cube points when picked energize the 1CR relay that holds the fuel solenoid power.
So identify the 1CR relay and determine if it picks and supplies voltage to the solenoid circuit.

There is no relay on the AC side, so if the fan is running there is AC. If there is AC at the fan there is AC at generator circuit breaker. I don't know what was happening when you had the fan running and no AC in the coach??

Now that you have AC, troubleshooting the control box and determining the issue should get you back to normal operation.

I know in my 83 FC Kohler/Perkins generator there is only one coil in the fuel solenoid. When the start button is engaged it energizes the solenoid. When the ice cube relay picks it routes power to hold the relay. I don't remember if there is another relay involved, but I will look later.

A few years ago I spent $2100 having the generator repaired. Then this year I replaced the regulator and it smoked after 12 hours. It made no sense to fix it again. It was over 30 years old, it was time to move on.
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Last edited by gcyeaw; 10-05-2015 at 10:26 AM.
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